6
Aug
2009
Westminster (PA) and Justification
I’m certain this video will ruffle a few feathers. Regardless of your view of justification’s position in the ordo salutis, this is a very clear and concise presentation by Lane G. Tipton.
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Nick
This is a helpful insight into the current debates on justification and ordo. Tipton is right – union IS the big picutre and justification is part of that picture. To place justification before union is, to my mind, to fail to understand the redemptive historical and eschatalogical nature of Scripture.
What was lost in Eden – was it primarily justification? No, though that righteousness which Adam possessed certainly was lost. No, what was lost was union – the whole relationship with God, being in His presence, from which man was barred by the flaming sword. The narrative of Scripture is the relcaiming, through redemption, of this union. Justification (through faith alone) is a non-negotiable central element of this, but NOT the big picture. There is much more to the narrative of redemption than Justification, as important as it is.
Matt
Sorry that last post should have been addressed to “Camden”.
Apologies, Camden.
Matt
Could someone knowledgeable explain to this ignorant Lutheran what instrument God uses to bring the believer into union with Christ, analogous to justification through faith? How do I get into Christ in the first place to receive the “much richer and fuller Gospel” that Dr. Tipton discusses? Many thanks in advance for any help that can be afforded.
You “get in” through faith-union. Union with Christ is enacted by faith. Faith isn’t exclusively tied to justification. Am I understanding the question?
Adam,
If you are Lutheran we do not mean to say you are “ignorant.” We are thankful for any brother who believes in the all-important doctrine of justification by faith alone. I think the issue has to do with the relationship between the ordo salutis and the historia salutis. The ordo (including justification) is based on and grounded in the historia (i.e. our union with Christ in His life, death, burial and resurrection). We are brought into union with Christ in eternity by election (Eph. 1:4, decreetal union), represented by Him in our union with Him in His life, death and resurrection (eg. Rom. 6, Col. 3:1-3, redemptive historical union), and brought into union with Him in time through faith (Rom. 16:7, existential union). If you think of these various aspects of union with Christ it will help see that justification comes from our faith-union with Him. It is “in Christ” that we are counted righteous (1 Cor. 1:30).
Camden and Nick,
Thanks very much. By “ignorant,” I only was stating the fact that I didn’t understand the Reformed teaching on union with Christ. This really helped, since my immediate thought in connecting the ordo salutis to the historia salutis is go to Romans 6:4, which Luther cites in the Small Catechism as the proof-text for how baptism benefits us.
I don’t know if this will help, but in watching the video, I noticed that Dr. Tipton mentioned Francis Pieper and John Theodore Mueller. Pieper is the standard systematics text in the two Missouri Synod seminaries, but Mueller is just an English condensation of Pieper; he’s not up there with Pieper, let alone earlier Lutheran systematicians like Quenstedt (whom Hodge read, I think), Chemnitz, or Melanchthon. So, although I don’t think you’re going to find a difference between any of those five on the place of union with Christ relative to justification, you want to be careful in using Mueller because his textbook was designed and is used mainly just as a shorter, easier version of Pieper.
By the way, I listen to Reformed Forum weekly and really appreciate all you guys do and the high theological level at which you do it. Keep it up!
Brothers
I think Nick’s comment is helpful.
For me one of the key texts on union is found in the epistle to the Ephesians that Nick has mentioned.
In Ephesians 1:3-4 Paul speaks about how we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world” Our union is an eternal union determined and enacted prior to our justification. Faith and effectual calling are the essential elements of that temporal enacting of union. Paul continues in Eph 1:7 “In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins” and 1:13 “In him you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your slavation”.
So there seems to be me to be a dual perspective at play – an eternal union which is enacted in time through faith union. Justification is one of the fruits of faith – Gen 15:6 – “Abraham beleived God and it was reckonned to him as righteousness”. There is a logical priority of faith over justification.
That’s my ten (British) pence worth.
Blessings
Matt
Mr. Holst, I’m not sure speaking of justification as a fruit of faith is clear or helpful, since classically Reformed speak of works as a fruit or evidence of saving faith. Would it not be better to talk about justification as a benefit, even a possession?
DGH
Thanks – as I wrote it I thought, perhaps that’s not the best way to put it. Yes, I think speaking of it as a benefit would be better – I was using “fruit” in a more broad sense than in relation to the faith-works relationship.
I’m happy to speak of it as a benefit.
Blessings
Matt