11 Responses

  1. Joseph Randall

    Thanks brothers. I’m not sure how Klinean they all are. But they are certinaly Pauline. Doesn’t that mean properly Klinean? 🙂

    Check out Simon Gathercole’s notes on Galatians in the New ESV study Bible. Also Stephen Westerholm’s Perspectives Old and New is absolutely excellent!!

  2. Nicholas T. Batzig


    I will have to step in and challenge your misunderstanding of Westerholm. While there are certainly many Lutheran thoughts in Westerholm the book is full of careful exegetical and historical work. I would encourage you to read through it with an unbiased mind. I apologize brother for having to do this on a blog, but I think you misunderstand why Jo is pointing to that book.

    Jo, Matt is right about Westerholm on such things as what we call the third use of the law. Even Dr. Willborn cautioned about that aspect of the book. Overall, however, the book is extremely helpful.

  3. Y Cymro


    All I am pointing to is the sub title of the book “Understading the Lutheran Paul”. Wholistically, there is an undeniable difference between a Lutheran and Refomred position on Paul’s view of the law- which Westerholm himself makes clear – hence the subtitle of his book “understanding the LUTHERAN Paul.”

    It’s all there in the title! Now that is not to say he has nothing of value to add to the discussion -but his exegesis is from an overtly Lutheran position.

    That’s all my point ever was. So I think your correction is misplaced brother, I was simply pointing out the difference which Westerholm himself goes to great lengths to point out .


  4. Joseph Randall

    Hello All,

    The reformed and Lutherans do not differ one iota, jot, or tittle on the doctrine of justification by faith alone. And it is for this doctrine and this doctrine alone I love Westerholm and think his book is most excellent.

  5. Y Cymro


    Again that is to miss the point of the discussion.

    No one has stated that Luther disagreed with the Reformed position on justification! I don’t know why we keep coming back to that.

    However, Westerholm certainly thinks that there is a difference in his view of the Law, or presumably he wouldn’t have written about the “Lutheran Paul”.

    It is an issue of law, and one’s view of it, and in relatin to this post – the books view of it. Which is why I first asked if the men were Klinean. And that was not a slight on them, I know many good men who are Klinean.

    As soon as you re-interpret Paul, through Luther’s faulty view of the law, then you are going to get Sinai wrong. And that is what you have with Kline, at least my understanding of him.

    I hope this, once and for all, clarifies the scope of our discussion. It is not about justification at all! Rather one’s view of law in the covenant of Grace.



  6. Joseph Randall


    Westerholm’s book is about justification. That is the main thing he is addressing.

    The book title “The Law Is Not Of Faith” comes directly from God’s inspired Word: Galatians 3:12.

    Someday I may write a book called, “The Strength of Sin is the Law,” which also comes straight from the Bible.

    Or maybe I’ll call it, “From Adam to Moses,” which is straight from Romans 5:14.

    This verse is a great link between the two “works type” covenants – Adam and Moses. Paul makes it clear sin was not imputed from Adam and Moses. You have to have a “works type” covenant for sin to be imputed. Having said that, I don’t think the covenant in Adam and Moses were totally equal, and I think Moses is part of the covenant of grace. But there is still a works principle because Paul says so: See Romans 10:5, Gal. 3:12, and others.

    Or maybe I’ll call the new book, “Through the Law Comes the Knowledge of Sin.” Again, straight from God’s perfect Word.

    Only after Jesus and justification can the law be established, as Paul says. Only then can we do Psalm 119 and delight in the law. If we try to do Psalm 119 before justification, we will go to hell.

    Nick has posted an essay by Vos on the imputed righteousness of Christ that is helpful on some of these matters.

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